I Was Wrong About Laravel?

22 thoughts on “I Was Wrong About Laravel?”

• Give adonis a try! I was pleasantly surprised with the framework, a lot of stuff done right and has inertia integration

• JS has very very bad package usage culture. PHP devs don't touch any 3rd party package unless it's necessary. JS devs have 1 gazzilion dependencies in a 1 line project.
  Backward compatibility and long term support is awesome in something like Laravel. Everything just works fine with bunch of first party packages, and some very well made 3rd party ones. Very fast, easy, reliable to deliver projects.

• [Edit] I'm sorry that people dismiss your previous work just because you've got a web presence. That honestly sucks.

  There is a Laravel for JS: it's called Laravel. (Edit: I made this comment before I got to the bit with Josh Cirre lol)
  PHP still powers 80% of the web for a reason. It has by far the most mature and battle-tested ecosystem in the web space. The PHP community places a great emphasis on standardization, so switching out most pieces of your app (database, auth, etc.) entails most of the time only changing a couple of lines of code in one file.
  Laravel also pairs very nicely with frontend frameworks like Next, React, Vue, etc.

  Most JS users aren't building their own services, though – or they're providing a convenient wrapper for someone else's service, so often a less feature-complete solution from the JS ecosystem is sufficient. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

• I use arch (btw)

• When someone says "Nextjs is a backend framework" keep in mind they trully mean "It has some good backend functionalities". They way the phrase it like that is to bring views to their content.
  When someone says "No need for batteries included" it means the do not want to deal with backend stuff. They just offshore it 3rd party land. Which offcourse makes sense for the right context.
  There will be a clear difference and experience from building and maintaining a "batteries included framework" than a "build your own by a thousand options" as a generality.
  Still pushing the narative that one must be bad and the other one must be good. Works every time for views.
  And at the end he builds a batteries included framework which has the exact same options as others.

• I think the point 2 about maturity is the biggest reason for the difference – mostly just because JS ecosystem has much bigger scope than PHP/Ruby one, so we're still in the explore phase, while they are already in exploit phase. PHP is kinda done, there's not much else to explore, that's why it's settled.

• I dunno, I've been getting into rails recently and I really like it. And this is coming from Laravel, which I also like a lot. It's so low drama compared to an all-js setup. I think hotwire overall sucks though, its amazing for simple sprinkles, but anything more than that and it all falls apart pretty quickly. After some teething issues, I've actually started to really like stimulus though, it's probably the best JS sprinkles approach I've come across? It's certainly more maintainable than alpine, just with a slightly more long winded setup.

  I overall disagree with this "JS doesn't need a laravel stance" the elephant in the room is Laravel is just PHP packages too. It's not entirely a monolith. Hell, half of it is symfony components. You can totally rip parts of it out, replace them. It's just got the batteries and cohesive parts built on top. This is in part why I'm so keen on astro. It's becoming this nice glue product, JS needs more of that.

• Make a video on AdonisJS Theo!

• I think Theo is right here. What JavaScript has that these other ecosystems lack is choice. There are many alternatives to choose from, each suitable for solving a particular problem. PHP didn't have that, and once something like Laravel emerged, it was there to stay. It's similar to how monopolies work: once you have one, there is only the monopoly. This never happened with JavaScript, and now that the genie is out of the bottle, there is no turning back.

• The problem I have with the JS eco system is that everything seems to be built for the react eco system. It's indeed "plug and play" if react is part of your toolbox. The moment you go for something like svelte, you will have to reinvent a lot of things even though svelte is way more beginner friendly and sane. Going for something like Adonis combined with inertia, you get your own eco system that just doesn't break and where everything feels as good as building something in react.

  I think it's a matter of time before people will jump ship and will actually use a Laravel -like framework

• I've been using trpc and react-location in alpha way before I saw your videos. I work in a bread factory! Get me a job!

• The saying goes: the world doesn’t need another JS framework, but the herd follows every “Shiny New Thing”; a symptom that they all kinda suck (grass is greener in the other side).

  The best comparison I heard is like building a PC, assembling individual parts, research, time, and effort configuring everything to play together.

  Maturity is not the problem, JS feels like Jack of all trades, Master of none. Laravel, while opinionated, is a cohesive package, like a Mac.

  At the end of the day, Time is money, use whichever allows you to deliver products faster.

  EDIT: 11:34 is my point 😂

• Actually I feel like Laravel ecosystem is so big right now, it needs something like create-t3-app. I recently migrated a small portion of a codebase written in Laravel 5.6 to Laravel 11 and only things I needed was routing and view.

  Since something like create-t3-app doesn't exist for Laravel and I wasn't interested in building without a framework, I had to ship a lot of boilerplate code.

• Would you ever do a deep dive on what went wrong with MeteorJS? Im trapped in a 250k SLOC codebase written in it currently…

• JS experienced devs do want a laravel/rails equivalent in JS. But some "tech influencers" keep telling new developers that we don't want that.

  After writing software for 7 years, there is nothing more that I, or my colleagues want, than a standard, opinionated, batteries-included framework to succeed in the JS ecosystem.

• Hey, personally I want an opinionated framework and if wasp manages to yield a Laravel-like DX I would be very happy to use that. I wish Wasp well, let's see in a year or two!

• I almost wish people who'd write articles like this, that try to capture the motives or feelings of another person, would reach out and talk with the person they are interpreting, first. It's pretty clear this person has misinterpreted your feelings about a number of things. It's a good article otherwise, but it's clearly written about someone who isn't Theo.

• As a GNU/Linux user I don't mind javascript/typescript, what I hate is electron. Javascript should stay on the browser.

• +1 for Adonis – clean and well-crafted

• Hi twitch chat

• > All in one solutions don't work.
  Proceeds to use NextJS.

• Linux People don't hate JavaScript for being simple, we hate it for being a dogshit inconsistent, incoherent language with footguns since day 1

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