Is Ubuntu becoming a WALLED GARDEN?



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Office Rig:
* AMD Ryzen 7 1800x
* MSI Pro Series X370 SLI PLUS
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* GSkill Ripjaw V DDR4 8GB x4 (32 GB)
* Fractal Design Define R9 Case
* Manjaro GNOME

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* ASUS X99-E-10G WS
* Intel Core i7-6900K @ 3.2GHz
* NVidia Titan X (Pascal)
* DDR4 Corsair Vengeance RGB 8GB x8 (64GB)

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* System76 Thelio Minor
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* DDR4 16GB RAM
* Zotac Nvidia GTX 970 4GB

Home Server:
* ASUS M5A78L-M/USB3
* AMD FX 6300 at 3.5 GHz
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* DDR3 12 GB RAM

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Devin BARTON

Devin BARTON

I am an avid Linux lover and open source enthusiast. I use Ubuntu and believe in sharing knowledge. Apart from Linux, I love classic detective mysteries.

36 thoughts on “Is Ubuntu becoming a WALLED GARDEN?

  • Avatar
    September 23, 2020 at 9:14 am
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    Not sure which I want less, flatpak or snaps…just run a distro that has the package selection you need. Or close enough that you don't really have to go out of your way. Debian's good for that.

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    September 23, 2020 at 9:14 am
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    I made a janky little utility called Dockrunner that lets you run graphical software in docker containers, and it works about as well as snaps in my experience. (Not well haha)

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  • Avatar
    September 23, 2020 at 9:14 am
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    The only thing Shuttlebug needs in these times is a spinning back-kick with a Danner logger.

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  • Avatar
    September 23, 2020 at 9:14 am
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    I CAN'T TAKE UBUNTU ANYMORE, I'VE USED IT FOR 6 MONTHS AND I'M DONE, YOU'VE MOTIVATED ME I'M SWITCHING TO DEBIAN, I WANT MORE COMPATIBILITY WITH OTHER LINUX APPLICATIONS!!!!!

    Reply
  • Avatar
    September 23, 2020 at 9:14 am
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    that's what i enjoy as a windows user. the small ~1% linux community bittering among themselves and not getting anywhere :-))))

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  • Avatar
    September 23, 2020 at 9:14 am
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    But I do like the idea of everything being something like Snappacks. If they were Flatpaks it would be amazing if EVERYTHING was done that way or .deb. (I don't like Snappacks though and I do agree they aren't a good thing.)

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  • Avatar
    September 23, 2020 at 9:14 am
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    AppImages are insecure, Flatpak a good idea, but harder to implement, and Snap are easier to develop … Canonical has the most popular distro (in user numbers) … wallet garder?? probably, I think that snaps could be used by propietary software companies more easily, and that could be good to Linux in part to have more supported hardware for example, and bad because a distro could have more power… for now I think that ban snapd in Linux Mint is a bad idea, Could you create the chromium deb package?? No? developers must talk with "code" …

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  • Avatar
    September 23, 2020 at 9:14 am
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    Becoming? They have been evil since day one. Snaps just accelerates it.

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  • Avatar
    September 23, 2020 at 9:14 am
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    Does this affect Ubuntu-based distros like Pop! OS or just Ubuntu itself?

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  • Avatar
    September 23, 2020 at 9:14 am
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    Snaps are a proprietary technology, there's no tiptoeing around that. This is Canonical pushing their own private agenda instead of contributing to the FOSS community. But worst of all is that most users of snap applications are not even aware of this fact and Canonial are doing everything they can to trap their users, home and enterprise alike, inside their new private ecosystem who still believe that Ubuntu is still part of FOSS.

    You know how long-time Windows users have a hard time transitioning to Linux-based OSes even when they genuinely try because they have a lot of habits that work on Windows but clash with Linux distributions ? That's the effect Canonical are trying to create: make people used to snaps so that when they try other Linux distributions they won't feel at home and go back to Ubuntu…

    Although it does underline one of my frustrations with the Linux community and the lack of a common and user-friendly end-user package management solution (install the software you want without fear of incompatibilities, update when you want, uninstall just as easily). Technically we do have two/maybe more standards (.deb and .rpm), but have you tried managing a .rpm that is not included in your distro's repositories ? There is no user-friendly way to do it. Just like there is currently no way for a user to switch distributions and seamlessly transpose all of their virtual workspace without something going wrong and forcing them to reinstall from scratch. This is why we've seen so many technologies like containers emerge, because we don't have a standard way for developers to package their applications for end-users that is:
    – portable/distribution agnostic (maybe even OS agnostic),
    – decoupled from the main system packages that are critical to the OS,
    – convenient to use by even inexperienced users who would prefer a GUI,
    – does not require one single centralized software hub (so that people can download and install applications directly from the software vendor's website for example, or separate groups can make their own special purpose software hubs like I don't know game developers),
    – offers a way for users to change distributions (or heck even the underlying OS) and/or desktop environments without reinstalling all of their end-user applications (or at least making this process transparent).
    Flatpak might be it, but its adoption is still too small to say for sure.

    Reply
  • Avatar
    September 23, 2020 at 9:14 am
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    currently flutter apps are only publishable through snaps , So many flutter based snap apps will come

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  • Avatar
    September 23, 2020 at 9:14 am
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    I dont know much about Snap but I use snap for one thing and that is Nextcloud in my Manjaro server.
    Its the easiest way to keep Nextcloud rolling.

    Reply
  • Avatar
    September 23, 2020 at 9:14 am
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    I was really confused when I loaded up Ubuntu 20.04 and tried adding the flatpak plugins for gnome-software only to have it not work for the first time ever. It turns out that by default, gnome-software is a snap. I am guessing that there is another snap for the flatpak plugins but….I still don't like being limited that way right out of the gate.

    Come on Canonical, put an option in the installer that lets me decide which paradigm I want to use, {streamlined, original} or something of the sort! At the very least, put a change-log inside the installer somewhere so I can see what changes I am in for.

    Maybe choosing the minimal install defaults to not using snaps for the software center but I highly doubt it.

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  • Avatar
    September 23, 2020 at 9:14 am
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    You have the right to criticize Canonical because the Linux community has expectations to fulfill the right way. @TLG By the way, I'm thinking of installing 'snapd' on my Manjaro KDE desktop. Will the snapd be stable or a walled garden there too? Also, in terms of installing Nextcloud through snapd, is it okay to install on desktop or is server highly preferred? I'm talking about personal Nextcloud storage, that can later be configured.

    Reply
  • Avatar
    September 23, 2020 at 9:14 am
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    Hello? We do exist as an ubuntu alternative. I thought we should mention. We are an open source cloud provider and operating system development company. Our os is an ubuntu based is but with many different enhancements. Just an option to check out https://www.nickstech.ga

    Reply
  • Avatar
    September 23, 2020 at 9:14 am
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    It protects privacy better, protects you from bugs AND decades old security problems that can only be solved by policies now provided with snaps… But never forget to disconnect your home folder….

    Reply
  • Avatar
    September 23, 2020 at 9:14 am
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    nice neat info,luckily with this info I am never going into that community and prevented me from destroying the community thanks.^^. BTW,to simplify the can%$%5 company is just a joker.Ubuntu users should be highly alerted now,take some backups on your side.

    Reply
  • Avatar
    September 23, 2020 at 9:14 am
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    On Arch, snaps lose their appeal – the system and apps are always up-to-date; if a software package is missing in the base repo, there is AUR where users publish PKGBUILDs for other software.

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  • Avatar
    September 23, 2020 at 9:14 am
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    I've used Snap before. And I thought it was alright.
    The apps can take a minute to load the first time,
    but afterwards, they seem to work perfectly.
    Adequately fast, responsive, and stable.
    I do hate the loopback devices though.

    Snap has saved me before, with out-of-date packages.
    Such as installing Gimp 2.10 on KDE Neon.
    However, they are not a replacement for keeping
    your packages more up-to-date! Just a work-around.

    Reply
  • Avatar
    September 23, 2020 at 9:14 am
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    I too use Manjaro GNOME on my desktop, and Ubuntu 20.04 LTS on my home server. The only snap package I use is the livepatch package. I would use the microk8s package, for my containers, because it seems really cool, but I'm so against snaps and they way they work, and how closed off that ecosystem is.

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  • Avatar
    September 23, 2020 at 9:14 am
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    I don't get people that think the entire world is political. I genuinely don't fall into any political camp… I have beliefs that could be in line with a few different camps, but in general… I just don't care for politics. I just try to get by, day to day, and live my life.

    Reply
  • Avatar
    September 23, 2020 at 9:14 am
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    I hope Kubuntu block snaps as well. They are terrible. I went and upgraded Authy, that was in a snap and now it has no access to the network! And I can't go back to the previous version. As well as the loads of loopback devices I hate how it doesn't follow filesystem conventions and just plonks snap directories everywhere that can't be moved or renamed. And then there's the security aspects… You couldn't make a new technology more rubbish if you tried. I now always install Ubuntu minimal and avoid all the crap that they put on. That way you get to choose the desktop and applications.

    Reply
  • Avatar
    September 23, 2020 at 9:14 am
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    While I understand your arguments, I don't agree with you on this topic.
    I personally didn't have more problems using Snaps than I did using Flatpaks. For example, I have an Ubuntu Server running a Nextcloud server as a snap package and it works like a charm. On the other hand, I had plenty of problems enabling plugins in GIMP installed as a Flatpak on some distributions (Linux Mint for instance). You'd think it would be as easy as copying the files to /.var/app/org.gimp.GIMP/config/GIMP/2.10/plug-ins/ folder and giving them the correct permissions, but it doesn't always work.
    My point is all three universal packaging formats have their drawbacks, and that's why none of them has been accepted by every distribution out there.
    I agree that the close sourced Snap Store is a problem, but I don't think having a centralized store is a bad idea in itself. For example, practically every Flatpak package I ever used is on Flathub, because it's easier for the end user. Otherwise it would be 20+ repositories all over again, but with a different packaging format.
    Thanks for the video, and I know I'm gonna receive a lot of hate on my comment. 🙂

    Reply
  • Avatar
    September 23, 2020 at 9:14 am
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    Hey Gardner. As a Libertarian, it bothers me that you're a Liberal, but I totally agree with you on Canonical. I use Mint and I'm glad they have a Debian-based distro as backup.

    Reply
  • Avatar
    September 23, 2020 at 9:14 am
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    Not a fan of Ubuntu on desktop but I think Canonical is trying to figure out how to make money in order to stay in business.

    Update inhibition was experimental as of February:
    https://snapcraft.io/blog/experimental-feature-snap-refresh-awareness-and-update-inhibition

    The capability to host a snap store is on the roadmap and is a requirement of many corporate environments.

    I think you maybe don't understand the purpose of LTS releases but maybe I'm wrong.

    I prefer docker containers to snaps.

    Reply
  • Avatar
    September 23, 2020 at 9:14 am
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    I'm a Debian user. Having older software is no big deal most of the time.

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  • Avatar
    September 23, 2020 at 9:14 am
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    Ubuntu is in a way soo broken at the moment. Like for example gnome is so heavily customized that you can easily break the desktop just by installing or removing add-ons..
    Lubuntu was always awesome, but the latest LTS release is super buggy..
    Kubuntu.. Hmmmm why would anyone choose this when you could go with Kde-Neon or Opensuse 😕
    Xubuntu & Ubuntu Mate are solid as always, but just like any Ubuntu release have a ton of older packages..

    At one point in time I loved Ubuntu, specifically xubuntu.. But now I rock fedora with xfce….

    Reply
  • Avatar
    September 23, 2020 at 9:14 am
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    I've been out of the loop in the OSS world for too long. Until this video, I thought snaps were pretty nifty, but now…. yeah…. Kinda want to explore flatpak now.

    Reply

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