Debating non-EVM Chains | Haseeb (Dragonfly) vs. Avichal (Electric)

24 thoughts on “Debating non-EVM Chains | Haseeb (Dragonfly) vs. Avichal (Electric)”

• damn the amount of brain power went into this discussion is crazy, please have them on again soon, thank you

• 1:10:38 Santi, get off duolingo my dude!!!!

• 1:03:44 Haseeb : “EVM’s are safer.” Yikes !
  Like, the reason we see so many hacks & wallet drains & exploits – is BECAUSE of the EVM. It’s just plain unsafe to use. Re-entrancy, Transfer From. New hack every single week.
  The sooner we can all drop the EVM and move on, the better.

  Plenty of high throughput chains out there. Lovely wallets, smooth intuitive UX. Safe for users. And importantly- no MetaMask !

  All kudos to Vitalik & the boys – invented stuff that didn’t exist. Fantastic.
  But now that we know the problems, and have solutions… can we just move on to better tech ?

• haseeb voice of reason

• It is an honor to be considered 'smart money.' It's amazing how the tables can turn when you dedicate yourself to a bear market and persevere through it. I've learned so much during this last downturn, and I won't lie, I'm already looking forward to the next one. However, before we get there, I'll be eager to offload my holdings onto retail investors, like a true chad.

• Haseeb – "Solana is obviously less secure than EVM, that's why there are so many fewer hacks of Solana protocols!"

• i liked this debate a lot

• Also, you guys have the wrong perspective. What do you mean one more cycle of infrastructure? In 2020, nobody cared about ETL2s, nobody cared about Arbitrum, nobody cared about Optimism. Infrastructure is going to keep coming. We have restaking. And EigenLayer is not the other only restaking project. Infrastructure is forever. Go look at Linux and Kubernetes. I'm an original Kubernetes before 1.0 user. Go look at the Kubernetes ecosystem today. Please, like I highly suggest a lot of you guys to kind of just maybe spend a week or two like in the history of like, you know, Web2 applications. Go from the 90s to the mid-2000s to the 2010s to see what got hot from like, you know, 2016 to now. Because just a lot of the things you guys are saying is just missing so many holes of reference.

• Thank God for Hasib this episode. There was a lot of just like BS being put out. I don't think like Blockworks as a whole, they're not that educated. These guys are like English majors. They don't understand technicals that just make sense to some certain people. Like if you can't understand that the Ethereum developer ecosystem is something that's probably not going to be caught by any other chain, I don't know what to tell you. These guys are just looking at money on the screen, which is fine. I love money too, but don't be lying and making intellectually dishonest arguments. That doesn't help anybody.

• One of your best.

• Santee always keeps saying, Oh, people aren't gonna care about the chains that they're using. Is it faster, better, cheaper? Then what? Then what? And what are you using exactly? Crypto's for money. You better know where your money's at. I don't know why you guys are trying to like, get people to believe that the future of crypto is like using Facebook, and you don't know nothing about where the money's moving behind. That's the same thing as the fiat system we have now. If you don't know how to use these chains, then don't use them. Because also, in my opinion, a lot of developer time has been wasted the past three years trying to get everybody into this weird UI, UX thing where nobody knows what they're using. We could have built way more protocols, but the VCs have distracted the developers because the VCs aren't technical. They just have money.

• I disagree with a lot of this stuff. I don't know why you guys keep thinking that like people have to use crypto and not know that they're using crypto. I need to know what chain I'm using. I need to know what dollars I'm using. Like what are y'all talking about? Like crypto is not the same thing as the U.S. dollar. Each chain has a different set of validators, so you have to know the difference. This is how y'all are going to end up having mad people lose their money later on. Education's the most important thing. If they can't start a bitcoin, stop trying to get retail into L3s and L2s. Like it's just common sense, or we're going to keep having the same issues of people complaining about UI and UX.

• Any point in using a blockchain if the codebase is closed source? Anchor v2(s)?

• Tron is cheap and has much more real world and retail use than Solana. It's an EVM, as centralized as Solana. Might make sense as an L2, but I doubt it. It's just shallow narrative and VC bag.

• Finally someone like Haseeb to give a non-Solana biased perspective on Empire, great stuff.

• The real long-term battle is Account Model vs eUTXO

• Santi wif hat

• We have not seen a major hack in Solano because it must be easier to write the securty aspect. This has been commented by developers i see no reason to over think that.
  Hasseeb uses the aurgument that it must be weak because it hasnt been hacked. I given it to him for creative argumentation. It shows how intense intellegent guy a can draw whatever conclusion.

• The reason that Solana is dominating NFT sales, is because 95% of people cannot stand to pay anymore than they pay on Solana. I have never once paid more than 1 cent for a Solana transaction. I will never ever buy anything on Metamaks again, and nor will I spend an hour and a half to get money from my account to Trader Joe. Building things on Solana is like chewing glass, while buying things anywhere else but Astroport is like eating glass. Maybe when I am trading 5 digits per transaction I will care about liquidity, but that isn't happening anytime soon lol Also how do I go about believing that while Jupiter is the #1 DEX that DEFI hasn't returned to Solana. Does Uniswap have to actually go out of business entirely before we can acknowledge Solana DEFI hahaha

• It seems Santi's attire finally caught up with his Solana moonboi persona.

• @40:00 one cannot see the contracts in solana? hard to hack if cant see it? 44:00 brings cant see the code up, to me this is key, how can one 1)verify a contract 2)hack a contract 3)exploit weakness in contract … if one cannot read the code? its like playing chess blindfolded, without anyone calling out the moves?

• Why does he look like chamath twin 😂

• Haseeb makes great points throughout and provides some great insight. I wasn't aware Rust compiler is non-deterministic. I also didn't agree with his point about "intolerant minority" until he reached the conclusion, which is that if Solana gets expensive, why not just fork it and make Solana 2 in this hypothetical world where assets are distributed evenly.

• Haseeb said no major Solana hack yet. What about mango markets?

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